If it wasn’t for Zosen (http://www.tofulines.tk) I wouldn’t be as deep as I am into this world of art on the streets talk and urban arts, sometimes illegal and most of the times inconvenient. So we start the best possible way, remembering past days for old time sake. Let’s see what this “old” friend has to say about his trips to Brazil and New York. Let’s find out what happened to the old school and let’s ask ourselves what the hell is happening to today’s art.
When, how and why did you start painting on the streets?
Mi first experiments on the streets were simple tags and I can date them back to 1989 when I was still living in Buenos Aires. After that, in 1990, I came to Barcelona and I got myself deeper in what was the Graffiti and Hip Hop culture. At the beginning I didn’t have any relation with Hip Hop because I came from the Punk and Thrash world, which was the music I listened to in those days. And why? Well, because I think that when one starts as young as I did, I was 11 or 12, one never knows why… you just do it because you need to.
You represented, for a long time, the famous ONG crew. Tell us how it was born, it’s evolution and why did it have to die?
Well, Skum and Sae where the original creators of ONG, and then a few days latter Debens, Pez and myself decided to join the crew. The name came from a joke because ONG means Non-governmental organization and we decided to change it to Ovejas NeGras (Black Sheep), which was how we felt we related to the Graffiti and urban art world. That was back in 2001 in Barcelona. So out of the blue we started collaborating with artists that did different stuff like Mister, Riot, Kafre or Maze, people from different realities, different generations and with different energies. It was like an experimental workshop made by friends, on the street. A great project that grew because we wanted to learn, collaborate and experiment and that finally died because we got to a point where each artist wanted and needed to sign for himself and not under the ONG label. I think it’s only natural, that something that was born, one day, had to die.
Even so you still collaborate with some of the members, like Maze or Kafre. But who are you as a solo artist, who is Zosen?
As an artist I continue with my campaigns/projects, always talking about things that I don’t agree with, like the political system or subjects like animal liberation etc. I still keep some Graffiti influences but I see myself heading a different path, growing. And as a person I can tell you that I’m discovering and trying new things, and each day learning. Just because I’m on this for 15 years, it doesn’t mean that I know everything!
Tofu Pax a.k.a Tofu Libre was one of my multiple campaigns that came as joke as well because I am vegetarian and against animal cruelty. “If you eat tofu you’re in peace” “Tofu is not exploitation” or something like that heheheheh Nano says that it’s too hippie hehehehe I don’t write it anymore because for me everything works as a cycle, like life does. If I continue doing the same thing over and over again I get bored, and I think that is what happens with many Graffiti artists, who do what they do because they don’t know what else to do. When things don’t have the same passion anymore I think it’s time to evolve to something else.
Tell me about the tour you did around South America. Brazil, the pixaçao, a new brave world totally different from Europe and Barcelona right?
This tour was a very fulfilling experience and most of all it was incredible to find artists with great potential and impressive quality and at the same time so humble. Totally different of what you might find in Europe where everybody thinks they are pop starts just for having a review on a magazine. A good example are Os Gemeos who are two great artists who do very interesting projects with galleries but who never stopped working on the streets. And like them I met many more! Everybody, who deals with urban art coming from Europe and going to South America, you will see that artists struggle a lot to make their art, from minimum conditions they make the best out of it. It doesn’t matter that there’s no spray cans, and it’s no problem if they don’t get to be on the Internet, they do it from the heart without expecting anything. For me, that seems very valuable, rich and true.
And what about Mexico? I see an enormous influence of Mexican art in your work. Are there any plans of future trips?
My next trips will be to Mexico and India, because of all the iconography, all the folk culture and the mural paintings. Maybe not as much for Diego Rivera but for the symbolism that these artists used when painting on the walls. You can see the entire history of Mexican civilization, from the Indians till our days, painted on the walls all over the country. I think it’s a very interesting and accessible way to tell the story of your own country. In a way it seems like I have already been there because of all the indigenous and popular iconography influences I find in my work. It seems so authentic and I think that’s why I like to use it.
It can also be said that you are an artist that likes using performance. You like to be in disguise and to stage the act. Why?
Because I should have been an actor! I think it’s a way of making your work reach other areas, you know what I mean? The idea of total ouvre or art equals life or whatever the equation you want to use in this case, but the theme of using performance in your work is a way to connect yourself with your work, not only as an artist but as a person as well. It’s a way of getting to know you better so people can see what you are creating. And there’s always the fun side to the story, and to take that cold impersonal side of art that makes it so boring. If you can send the message and have fun at the same time I think you’ve succeeded!
Tell us what you think about today’s Graffiti. What happened to the old school and what do you think about what people are doing nowadays?
Lots of people still paint like the “old” times. I respect a lot the classic Hip Hop culture as I respect Rock and classical music, but at the same time I like Electro or Hard Techno, to give you an example. The problem is, in general in our society, that people choose something and then defend it as the only possible way. Things like these happen in the Graffiti world. It’s Ok to defend classical Graffiti but I think that one should go one step further. A good example is Futura 2000, he did whole-cars, top to bottoms in trains, painting atoms and doing abstract painting. So what is that? Is it not classical and true because it’s not Wild Style? Sometimes people talk just for talking or because of their ignorance or because they are just afraid of trying new stuff. What I mean is that it’s ok to use Wild Style or Bubble Style as a starting point but as time goes by and when you evolve with practice it’s good to try new styles and new ways of painting.
And what about Barcelona… is Street Art dead?
Barcelona… well with the new laws the thing is getting more and more complicated. People still do Graffiti, but hiding now. At the beginning of 2006 I was very sad to see that people were painting in lost hidden factories or that they were going to the outskirts of town to paint. I’m not against it, but I think it’s just a way to say: ok you’ve won the battle. And if Graffiti is, by itself, the natural expression of discontent with society, the voice that shouts: here I am and I’m against it! it should continue to sound out loud. Well we’re not dead so far, so we should continue saying: here I am! We have to continue painting the city, only using different methods or what will happen is that one day we won’t recognize our own town, because the only tags and throw-ups we see are from out of town people. Now I only see things from Pez, Lolo and Kenor, and where is everybody else? I don’t know… and I leave the question unanswered… we have to react and with the city’s history of social agitation we have, continue breaking the rules, if not in a couple of years it’s gonna be totally impossible to paint on the streets.
But now it seems that everybody only thinks about exhibiting and selling their work. What do you think about that?
I think it’s ok. It’s only natural that folks, who are in the Graffiti world for so many years, that paint on the streets and just give away for free endless hours of their life want to receive something back. On one hand I think it’s ok to say: enough is enough, but because you’re exhibiting it doesn’t mean that you have to stop painting on the streets.
You’re returning from New York where you’ve been chilling there with Momo and Maya Hayuk. How did the big apple seem to you? Was it how you expected?
New York, New York, the big city of dreams hehehehe that’s how the song goes right? If I had been in New York 13 or 14 years ago I would have been crazy out of my mind with all the entire Hip Hop scene. But now the only thing I can say is that Graffiti is dead in New York. I’m sorry but it is. All that I saw was Obey posters and Faile stuff. It seems so weird that a big city, with so many different cultures, like New York, urban and Street Art can be so poor compared to Europe. Barcelona, which is much smaller as a city, is richer in this kind of art. Apart from Momo, Maya Hayuk, Revs, Oze 108 and U.F.O. everybody else seems boring.
Who might you say represent the future of Street Art?
The future in Spain are the Galician artists: Nano 4814, Tay one, Tay one, the twins (Tiñas y Pelucas) … all the Niños especiales, I think they have what it takes to be the future of Street Art. Also 3ttman is doing different and fresh stuff, Arnau Sala. From U.S.A: Momo, from Denmark Freak Gallery (Tele), my group United Hands City Circus and EF10, almost every artist from Escandinava seems very interesting like CCrazy Horse (Maes), Ekta, Huskmitnavn, Glue etc.
You’ve just finished burying the dead with a Mexican altar, at the Dudua shop. What’s the next step?
Well, the next move is gonna be at Distrito Quinto, where we’ll do something for BAC (Contemporary Art Barcelona). It’s gonna be a work in progress where different artists paint the same canvas. Next year I have some plans to go to Peru and Brazil again, to do a tour maybe…
I would say that there’s a big difference between exhibiting something and showing it on some kind of publication. An exhibition on a gallery should be a big step, where one has the opportunity of showing one’s work in a way the artist really pleases. Of course one should never forget one simple thing: the exhibition is like a presentation card, so it should be well done. There are those who choose the fastest and simple way, there are those who complicate things, and there’s those who, like Catalina Estrada (www.catalinaestrada.com), knows how to do it well.
Preparing an exhibition is like playing a game. You have to be aware of a million things and you have to know how to play with what you’ve got. You need to find that equilibrium between what you would like to do and what you are going to do for real. And Catalina knows it well: “To start preparing any exhibition I need to know how many paintings I’m going to exhibit, the colors I want to use etc I want that each painting lives by itself and at the same time can find its place among the other paintings, and that the space functions as one”. The money is never enough, there’s always things that are left undone and the silly feeling that everything will be perfect for the next exhibition haunts you every time.
For the moment the talk is on “No me quieras matar, corazón”, at Iguapop Gallery. And for once I would say that the artist did what she wanted to and achieved victory. The presentation card worked out fine and Catalina Estrada introduced herself for the first time in Barcelona in the best possible way: her own way. And it’s easy to recognize her style for everything is hand made. The exhibition smells tradition, something that comes from unknown times, something that more than culture resembles pure remembering. Barcelona turns into Colombia, for a moment, and the sound of old folk songs are everywhere: “The Latin American folk music is what gives life to all the ones that are in love, to all the ones that are lovesick, to the ones that want to die for love and find comfort in these songs”. To do all that Catalina uses spray paint and stencils and lots of imagination. Pieces of wood, doors found on the street and paper panels are painted in a new fashion forgetting those old ways, and in all this the surprise is on the third dimension. Little pieces of colored reliefs can be found in almost every painting: “I like the idea of touching the paintings and feeling its texture…”
This is “No me quieras matar, corazón”, the perfect moment and opportunity to say and show things that were kept inside for too long, to deal with the ways of love personally, and to do it by using the fastest way to the heart, music. If it wasn’t personal it wouldn’t be Catalina. That’s the way to know Catalina Estrada, by going to one of her shows.
November begins and with a new month a new interview. This time we will take a closer look at the work and life of the artist behind the Alone (www.sintevision.net) nick. Animator, Illustrator, Graffiti writer and also master of the light and scholar of the color and digital postproduction while also an admirer of street decadence. Two worlds that meet each other with him. Enjoy.
When, why and why you began to paint in the street?
First image I have about painting is from my first tag. I was sometime around 1989. Back then they didn’t use to clean them as much as they do today, and I used to see them everyday on my way to school. For me they were something natural in the metro environment, like the rails or the handbrake. At the beginning it didn’t feel like I was doing something special. Until later, when I met other writers, I was not conscious that what I was doing had a name of its own.
It’s obvious that in Madrid, at that time, there was already a huge Graffiti scene. Where you aware of that? What names do you remember seeing in the walls?
No, I wasn’t aware. Like I said before I was completely unaware of what the scene was about. It wouldn’t be until 91, when I met Spok, that I would get, let’s say it this way, into the Graffiti dynamics (racking paint, spending more time in the tunnels than in the street…) Only from then was I conscious of the existence of a scene… of its magnitude! It was a big revelation, and immediately I was part of that little group of kids that converted the metro in his personal playground
I can imagine that… This is when you realized what kind of world you have gotten into!
Yeah, kind of. It was great because for the first time I was part of something. I had a quite nomadic life, my family was always moving from one place to the other and because I changed schools often, I never had a group of lifelong friends. All of a sudden I started to hang out with a fixed group of friends, strange people with whom I did weird things and that was cool. Learning to do Graffiti it was crazy indeed…
Who were the people you hanged out with at that time? Was this the moment your crew TBC was founded? Is that the only crew you ever belonged to?
That was the time I started hanging out with Spok, who has been my partner ever since. I also remember Tala, Sor and Cek of the FXC, who were bombing a lot at that time. Also Rhed, a writer that I met later on and that was a big influence because he didn’t worry only about painting but also about being informed. He was really focused on what he was doing. My crew began to form during that time, but suffered a lot of transformations. Our best moment was from 1997 to 2000. At that time we were Buni, Sha, Know, Spok and I. Later Colbie would join us, but the originals were always Spok and myself.
What you mentioned about information is important. That was something that then was much more different than now. What was your main source of information?
Basically the usual ones: Traveling, fanzines, people that came from abroad… You could subscribe to the fanzines, which was basically keeping in touch by mail with the editor. That was the best way to stay informed… We also exchanged pictures by mail, there was always somebody who collected pictures and we had meetings to check out the new pics they got.
The pictures thing is quite peculiar. There was always somebody who collected pictures in every city, even if this person wasn’t an active writer.
Yeah, but those were the less. The truth is that at that time, information wasn’t something accessible to everybody.
But that was the good thing, wasn’t it?
For me was great. Even if I was a little inexperienced, I knew what I wanted and what to do to get there, to evolve.
And what was that that you had to do?
Basically don’t stop drawing: at home, at school, with friends… We spent entire evenings like mad men, filing up blackbooks, sketching, doodling on handkerchiefs…
What you did back in the day was more bombing and trains, right?
No, not really. I love trains but besides two or three times it was always somebody else who took me painting, people from my crew. I was always more interested in the development of the letters, color combinations and the connections between them. I think the most important thing is the tag, is the base for the development of the rest of your stuff. Anyway, I always thought that you have to touch all fields to be really good.
I know there is people who think that the trains you painted (and the ones painted by TBC in general) were, at a certain time in Madrid, a revolution in style. What do you think about this?
I don’t think it was a revolution; we simply wanted to do panels with style, that’s all.
Coming back to what we talked about influences, now there is a big come back to the classic aesthetics of New York graffiti, and is have to say that this is something that you reflected in your pieces from long time ago, even when people didn’t share your vision and criticized you for that. Has that style been important for you?
There is something about Graffiti that I learned with time and that is innocence, the one a kid has one when he paints his first pieces and he is not influenced by what others might say about him or when he is not a slave of a certain style. This is something you can breath in 70´s Graff, something totally new, is the time I enjoy the most, the pioneers. Graffiti is for fun right? So I’ll do what I enjoy the most, and always knowing were than shapes and those arrows come from. I do everything with a lot of respect for the people that came before.
We were talking about the respect for the origins of Graffiti, but you should agree with me in that staying visible in the streets implies an evolution, necessary for getting noticed among so many things around you. You, together with Colbie, were the first people I remember pasting posters and putting stickers in Madrid. Also the first ones in bringing back the classic New York tag with silver marker in a time when people were more interested in doing your multicolored sunday walls. What can you tell me about this?
Well, this was around the year 2000. At that time, Madrid scene was relegated to outskirts walls were people met to do big productions, and the city center, that is usually a hot spot in any city, it was really dry. I didn’t like that at all. My people and me have always been a downtown crew, and I had the feeling that the scene was stuck. This feeling, together with meeting BNE by chance, one of the most serious bombers at an international level, was what precipitated that change. Bringing back the Graffiti essence of getting up by any means necessary. Is obvious that stickers work great, the same as posters. Silver tags are really important because is were you can see the hand style of a writer, and is an easy way of working the street. Is great synthesis of Graffiti.
Can you talk a little bit of what you do nowadays on a creative level?
I work in cinema and advertising, as an animator, designer, art director or whatever needs to be done. Always related to the field of the most classic postproduction, the cinema one, which is the field were I worked the longest. Now I am working a little more for television. Is a smaller format that let’s you more creative freedom. In Spain we still have to pass the important exam of introducing design in television, something Saul Bass did in cinema in the 70s. This is what people are calling now Motion graphics, something will be omnipresent for the next decade.
Do you think that being involved in Graffiti in such an intense way is an influence on what you do nowadays? Do you think you would be doing what you do now if it wasn’t for that first tag you did in 89?
Graffiti changed my life, not so much for that sense of belonging to a scene, but more about the way I assimilate information. I always loved to know the name of this or that writer I liked, their crews, where are they from, what paint they use… studying Graffiti: knowing the name of the crews and their cities they are from, what type of trains are in this cities, the styles… Now take this method of learning and apply it to anything, it works. This is the most important thing, apart from being influenced, style wise, by Graffiti of the 70s and 80s or being fetishist about it. For example, now I see a “High Times” (first Graffiti zine made by Phase2), which on a technical level is quite poor, imagine, photocopies and black and white, but I think is incredible and brilliant.
How did you decided to study animation?
It was a curious decision. I have always drawn, I even went to a classic academy (anatomy drawings, charcoal, pastels) but I was a bad student. My father gave me the opportunity to study something I really liked. I found traditional fine arts boring (I was 17) so getting into cartoons seemed fun. I did that for 3 years, and I think that clearly affected my Graffiti and vice versa. My pieces started to be more cartoon and to simplify its shapes.
Can you tell me some influences outside the world of Graffiti?
Everything! After animation I studied graphic design, and I also was raised up in a really creative and artistic environment, so when I discovered classic designers like Saul Bass, Herbert Lubalin, Milton Glaser… caused a deep impression on me. I love the graphic design from the 60s and 70s, Victorian English typography or early 20th century posters. I also got a big collection of 70s and 80s underground comics, American and European that affected me in a big way. Of course animation from the 30s and 40s of the U.P.A. and from the contemporary U.P.A..
The decision of keeping your activity as a Graffiti writer apart from your professional work, has it been a conscious one?
Of course, for me from the beginning Graffiti has been just a way to have fun, a game, and a way to develop a graphic style… I don’t like to sell that part of what I do. I’m sure it has influenced my professional work but I don’t like saying, “I’m a Graffiti writer” to get a job. Some people that are not really writers use that because it looks good nowadays in the advertisement industry. And at some point in your life of course you have to work, right? And if it can be doing something you like, so much better but I like to keep some things apart from your work… I don’t know, it’s a tricky and very personal subject and the only important thing is trying to be happy.
Do you consider yourself an active writer?
Well, I do my stuff every once in a while but I’m never been that active. At least not anymore like an 18 years old kid can be, all full of energy. The problem is this: What happens when that energy is gone? Do you quit painting? And the eternal doubt: Quantity or quality? Well, I guess that the best is good quantities of quality stuff but that’s difficult. Now I believe in the idea that it’s better to paint during a longer period because it gives you a different view on things. I’ve seen many writers come and go very quickly, people that paint like crazy during a couple of years and then quit for good. After some time, nobody is going to remember then except maybe when you are drunk with other writers and somebody says “Hey, do you remember that guy? He used to bomb hard for a while, right?” I believe that it’s better to keep it going for a longer time although maybe you don’t bomb so hard.
Sintevision intro
How do you see the current evolution of the Graffiti world and the Street art phenomenon?
I think that’s good. Evolution is necessary, otherwise we die. I hate the kind of conservative and fundamentalist approach to Graffiti. For me Street art is just a label because there has been similar stuff to that from the 80’s. You are going to respect Keith Haring because it’s from NY 20 years ago and not the people doing similar stuff now? Like a zine I know says “The street is for free”
Working in advertising I guess that you will have an opinion on the use of Graffiti as a cool way to reach a younger audience.
Acceptance and inclusion of Graffiti in the mass media is something you cannot avoid anymore, it’s what I call bastardization. Let’s suppose that some cultural movement is born authentic but as soon as it’s seen as something interesting for a group of people it’s engulfed by the media to reach that people. You extract its essence and use only the aesthetics that can attract that people. In the case of Graffiti (more of a social than a cultural movement in my opinion) this has been happening for a long time now. Just take a look at Malcom Mclaren in the “Beat this” documentary surrounded by a bunch of b-boys in a scene where they are painting at Macys in NY. And it’s 1986! Because of that I think it’s important to remember and understand that culture as it was and it’s supposed to be and that’s done by the information. In the case of Graffiti, not that many people now that much about it.
Alone collaboration on “Mind Powers”
Something interesting that you would like to recommend to the Subaquatica.com visitors?
Yes, buy from Subaquatica! hahaha… No, seriously, this is going to ruin the whole interview but please buy products with a responsible attitude and don’t believe the different hypes and tendencies that are offered to us. Try to learn about the things that you buy beyond the social labels attached to them. Try to live the different artistic movements of your time before they are bastardized by the consumer society. And it would be good if people could develop their own opinions on things, which seems obvious but it’s in fact very difficult nowadays
What are your plans for the near future?
Who knows? Try working less and draw more, go back to paper as a medium. Let’s see if that’s possible. I might also go to the US to spend some time there and see how things move around.
Any project that you would like to do but never been asked to?
A good book about the history of Graffiti in Madrid, from a personal point of view and based mainly on the writers that made a contribution to this history. It’s never been done. Also, the same thing but as a documentary.
For Rich Jacobs things can, actually, be pretty easy. It’s just a question of if things move him or not. I mean that was how everything started, with “Move”, the first show that put together a series of unknown names at the time, more than famous names at this point. We are talking about 1997, when people like Barry McGee, Phil Frost, Thomas Campbell or soon to be myths like Margaret Kilgallen were nothing but strangers to the art galleries universe. “Move was based on not seeing enough of friends work that I liked and wanted to see shown together. It was fun and kinda loose. Just the things that moved me” says Jacobs.
So who is Rich Jacobs? A person that is able to move freely and do what he likes without a lot of interruption and hassle, or in some instances much notice. Someone who likes sloppy punk and at the same time releases a folk album
with long time friend Tim Kerr. An artist who never stops creating and curating: “I started curating about ten years ago out of necessity, in a way to see things I liked in the place where I lived and wasn’t seeing there. I never stopped creating though, I feel it’s important to always try to do both if posible.”
Talking about his characteristic style and where he finds his strange characters Jacobs says: “My style was a natural progresion of constant drawing, looking, and experimenting. The characters came in my childhood so early it’s difficult to remember, they are pieces of everyone I see around me. The environment can have an impact but it is usually kinda subtle in my work as an influence, maybe more in colours and that kind of things…”
But why are we talking about Rich Jacobs? Because we found the perfect excuse to finally meet the artist in person. Jacobs is touring with the brand Eastpack to release a new limited series of bagpacks, designed by the artist himself, and this time Madrid was one of the chosen cities. So we just decided to invite him out for lunch and see if we could find some record stores to buy some good old punk records.
Jacobs turned out to be as we expected, an example of politness and creativeness, always finding time to draw one of his characters on a sheet of paper or even in a passport as a way of saying thank you, and patiently answering to all our questions and doubts while going up and down the streets of Madrid. He felt us feel at ease with him and showed us that the nameless, the invisible, or even talentless just everyday people are the best influence he can find to create art, and using his own words: “…well, aren’t we all just people?”
It wasn’t easy to find Jim Houser… but I finally did. And from nothing I was chatting with the man who created Babel. More than a book, it’s an invitation to enter his world, to understand that it’s not that difficult to be a good artist. You just have to love what you’re doing and never stop doing it. From skate, love and everything else that makes us be who we are, Jim is the first to start the conversation: ” you wanted to talk, now we can…”
When, where, how and why did you start making your kind of art?
I have made art my whole life, drawings and such, but I would say that the type of painting I am known for now had it’s beginning in around 1996, while I lived in Providence, Rhode Island.
The first time I saw your work I immediately thought of Chris Johanson, Barry McGee and all the folks from the Mision District. And then I was surprised to see that you were actually from Philadelphia and that you lived on the opposite coast, the East Coast! I wonder where did you came up with your style? Who were your influences?
I was aware of what Chris and Barry did, as well as Phil Frost, Ed Templeton and others through my friendship with Shepard Fairey. Shep lived in Providence and I worked for him, cutting stickers and folding Andre The Giant t-shirts. I met a lot of very interesting folks through him.
Do you or did you ever painted in the streets? Do you feel that you are part of the Graffiti culture or more like the illustration world?
Yes, I have done my thing outside at night. It’s fun occasionally but it has never been the real point of what I do. I have a ton of friends that wheatpaste posters and write on walls, so I would go hang out and have fun with them every once and a while. But no, I don’t feel a connection to the Graffiti universe, other than their love of stealing and ruining things.
Tell me how is a normal day in the life of Jim Houser?
Lately I wake up around 10 am, coffee, cigarette, let the dogs out. I work from 11 or so till 3, painting, computing, making music. Then I run errands around town. I take a nap on the couch and watch the news around 5 or 6. Take the dogs to the park or for a walk. Eat dinner, then paint until I am tired, usually around 1 or 2 in the morning.
You are a skater and you design skate decks for Toy Machine. That should be good, to work for something that you believe and enjoy. Skate as well as painting is a 100% time necessity, right? How do you manage to do both?
Well, I’m an older dude. I long ago gave up the dream of a pro skateboard career. I don’t place anywhere near the priority on skating that I do on painting, and I don’t skate as much as I used to when I was a youngster. It is painting that defines who I am as a person. But that attitude definitely came from skateboarding…the feeling of loving something so much that it’s all you think about. That said, nothing about painting compares to blasting down a busy city street with friends, while everybody else is sitting in an office at work. Best feeling there is.
Talking to Shepard Fairey, on the last issue of Swindle Magazine, you said something that I just can’t stop thinking. You said “Everything around me gets painted on”. I got the feeling that you have a nonstop need to paint. And looking at your work it’s obvious that for you to paint a wall, a piece of wood, a skateboard or a soap it’s the same, the idea is to never stop painting. Am I right?
Yes. I take occasional breaks from painting or art-making, like after a big show when I’m burnt-out. But generally I can’t stop making stuff, almost to the level of it being a personality disorder or a compulsion. It’s the only time I feel truly at peace, while making things.
And I think that’s the real message in your book Babel. I can imagine that it was a difficult but important step for you to do this book the way you decided to do it, like a diary where you present yourself and your intimacy to your public. Why did you decide to do it like this?
Because the art that interests me is art that is presented in context. I care more about the image if I care about the person, their story, their process. That’s how I wanted to present my work, in the context of the world that I occupy. All my influences are present there…my friends and family, my wife Becky, particularly.
Why did you choose the title Babel?
Because I love the story of the tower of Babel. I’m not religious at all, I just like the moral of the story. And it dovetails nicely with my love of language and the human need to communicate.
You exhibited last may in L.A. “This Place Is Ours Now” was the name of the exhibition. Can you tell us a little bit about it?
The title refers to the idea that one gains possession of any location where an event of great emotion occurs. You own the place where your first kiss occurs… you own the place where you broke your arm etc. Nothing can remove those memories and what we have experienced. And so we possess it forever.
The exhibition came with music right? Is that usual in your shows?
It has become more common over the past 2 years, and will continue. It’s just an extension of the world I try to create when I make an installation. It’s a way to affect another sense.
Do you think in ever coming or exhibiting in Europe? Would you like that?
Yes, I’m sure eventually it will happen. I take on projects as they arise, if I find them challenging. I don’t really actively seek out shows. For example, the projects that have been proposed to me so far haven’t been what I am looking for.
Any plans for the future that you can tell us?
I am working on a record of my music, with a record label from Philadelphia called Tonearm. I am getting ready for Art Basel Miami, which is an art fair. I’m doing that with Merry Karnowsky Gallery, and then 2 shows in 2007, so far.
Any artist or event /initiatives that you would like to recomend?
On July 27th and 28th, the art gallery “ABC no Rio” in New York City (www.abcnorio.org)hosted and Art auction to raise funds for the Daniel McGowan cause (www.supportdaniel.org). Called “If They Come For You In The Morning”, the show featured art works from artists like Swoon, MoMo, The Barnstormers, Elbow Toe, Judith Supine, David Ellis, Brandon Bauer, Kelly Burns, Sunny Chapman alias Flower Face Killah… … that donated their works for the cause. Some of the pieces had a set price, varying from 10US$ to 100US$ and 150US$. Artworks from better known artists as Judith Supine, MOMO or Swoon were sold at silent auction.
Daniel McGowan is an environmental and social justice activist, part of the Military Counter-Recruitment project incidentally, who was arrested in 2005 and now faces a minimum of life in prison if convicted. He was charged in federal court on numerous counts of property destruction and conspiracy. McGowan plead not guilty to all charges.
His detention was coordinated by the federal government in the Northwest US, in the state of Oregon, a part of a multi-state sweep of numerous activists who were charged with practically every earth and animal liberation case left unsolved in the area. Many of the charges, including Daniel’s, are for cases that were to due to expire. The legality of this detentions is unlikely and for this reason many have protested the charges, specially McGowan’s.
The show coincided with the summer’s biggest heat wave, temperatures reaching 100º F (38º C) and 102ºF (39ºC). The space only had a small fan to refresh but nevertheless the show was crowded and many pieces sold for more than 300US$.
Before the arrival of the term Street art everywhere, Graffiti was there for about 20 years already. And some of the artists that grew up with it had started to push the boundaries of that art form. Coming from that tradition but heading decisively towards his personal discourse, Sixe has developed a style hard to define just in terms of any particular movement. His art is a necessary referent in the urban landscape of his hometown of Barcelona but has been shown in galleries and museums too, including his recent show at Subaquatica, one of the most successful here to the date. It was time already we had a talk with him that we could share with all of you.
First, a question we ask all artists we interview: When, Where, How and why did you start doing art on the street?
I started painting around the late 80’s in Badalona (near Barcelona). Since I was a kid I always liked to draw. With my dad, that wasn’t an artist, we used to do this mixes of color and abstract compositions. The whole painting on the street thing started after I saw some pieces and tags around. Then I met a member of the DFR crew and he explained how all that worked. He had been doing Graffiti and also Breakdance and showed me pictures of pieces he had done. All that made me want to do it myself and started putting up my name everywhere. Actually I was just bombing at first and didn’t started doing pieces until at least a year later.
Sixe and Nano4814
I have the feeling that you are an artist coming from a Graffiti tradition and background but that has been able to fit very well into the new Street art scene and has started working more and more in events and with artists that deviates from the classical Graffiti aesthetics. But, where do you see yourself?
First of all I’m a Graffiti writer because that’s where I’m coming from. I started out in that just like many others. Many people have never seen that but I was doing pieces with letters for a long time. I just don’t think about it very much and on the other hand I enjoy participating in all these projects because they offer me new experiences. For instance, I enjoy having to take into consideration what the client needs when a commission work comes up and the challenge it represents. And in any case, I have my style and no one offers me to participate in projects where I would have to deviate from that.
It seems like many artists coming from Street art of Graffiti have a professional activity where their work is more dependent on computers and some are clearly graphic designers. You, however, seem to use the same handcrafted and manual approach in your commercial and commissioned work and use the same techniques.
First of all I’m an artist but yes, I do work for agencies and since about a year and a half I use a computer too but just as a tool for preliminary coloring and some jobs where it’s required. I use it a lot or trying different color combinations before painting on canvas.
I know you have work with different clothing brands and fashion designers. What can you tell us about that experiences?
The fashion world is very interesting. I’ve work with designers such JJosep Font, Kina Fernández and brands like Cimarrón, Pull and Bear and a few more and the experience has been very positive in all this cases. I would really like to create my own collection based on my characters.
As for commission work, how is your approach to using your own line of work to address the client’s needs?
I approach that challenge with a preliminary study and sketches until I can reach what the client is looking for without having to depart from my own style. People already know about my work and usually when they come to me with some project they know what to expect.
And about your street work: How do you feel your own activity and Barcelona have changed since you started painting on the streets?
The whole scene has evolved very much since I started. I’ve had different periods and changes but I feel that I’ve always maintained a very personal approach. Compared to other cities I can see a much wider variety of styles in Barcelona nowadays and I find that very stimulating.
In your own personal universe there seem to be some characters that show up more often: Chickens and animals in general, kids… Can you explain how and why?
My own universe of characters comes from a happy childhood and a close contact with mother nature. When I was a kid I had many animals around such as birds, doves, turtles… scorpions!! And my first job was at a pet shop. I guess all that has remained in my subconscious and now shows in my artistic activity. Also I feel that that childish style of mine helps keep me younger.
It seems like while the influences of your childhood are obvious the bitter side of adulthood is also present. How much of it is intentional and how is it therapeutic?
There are those influences and of course there is a strong presence of all the things I’ve been through in my life since then. I guess my work is a reflection of my personality and there’s the subconscious playing a part without me noticing. Sometimes I paint things while thinking about other stuff or I later realize that there’s a particular moment of my life right there or a desire and I didn’t even noticed in the process. What actually keeps me alive and young is creating and painting. If I feel happy while painting I don’t think much about the rest.
Could you define that balance between the childish aesthetics and the use of bright plain colors and the darker side in your work.?
I would define it with the following words: sinister tragicomedy with notes of psychopaty and touches of acid.
You been doing sculpture for some time now. Please tell us about that. Do you have any intention of bringing that to the street too?
My experience with sculpture is very good and I’ve been doing proofs and series for a few years. I’m happier every day with the results. The structures I create for them have been getting better lately as well as my work technique. The last ones I’ve done were a commission from a children clothing brand called Tuc Tuc and in my workshop I have about 27 pieces almost finished that will be ready to be shown soon. I haven’t thought about bringing them to the street and they are conceived for galleries but I’m not ruling that idea out either.
Also concerning your sculptures I can see you have two different lines of work: One with a more industrial look and the use of recycled parts and the other that where what you do is more of a 3D version of your character work. Could you elaborate further on this?
Like you said I have to different approaches when it comes to sculptures and they are clearly different from each other. With one of them it’s more of a search for random designs that end up creating a figurative composition that somehow resemble the basic lines of my characters. I don’t paint these sculptures and the main role is played by the parts that I use and the composition. With the other “3D” pieces that you mention it’s a more elaborate kind of sculpture because of the process it implies: Construction of the structure, which takes some time already, then the filling and shaping and then the sanding and painting.
How has been your experience in the world of art galleries and museums?
All that world is very appealing to me and until now I’ve done a few shows at galleries and have always felt very comfortable with them. It seems like the art world is increasingly interested in urban artists nowadays.
What have you been doing lately?
I’m preparing a joint show with Dios1 for the N2 gallery in Barcelona, a project for the Toulouse city council and some illustrations for a Rojo magazine project with Nike Air, as well as a couple of other things.
Any plans for the future that you can tell us about?
I have a show in Brussels next year.
Something you want to do that it hasn’t been proposed to you yet?
I would like to have a book with my work published and find my new muse.
Any artists or initiatives that you would like to recommend?
Artists like Fasim, Pone88 and Dios1. And, what better initiative than respect? Thank you!!
Master P aka Grand Wizard Pmh aka People Miss Heroin aka Pretty Much Hopeless aka Panty Munching Hero aka Pussy Mash Hash. All of this, and much more is Pmh (www.fotolog.com/lapmh), well known artist that is currently based in deep ‘Nam, on the outskirts of Old London Town, UK. What’s his real name we don’t know and he ain’t gonna tell us. What we really want to know, though, is all about his zine The Dilly (www.ledilly.com), its upcoming issue and its new web site. Between the Sex Pistols and sunny Barcelona he has much to say and show. Let’s hear him out then.
One question we always ask everybody: When, where and how did you start to create work for the streets?
I started a while back hand painting stickers and drawing on walls around London town. Looking back now I’m embarrassed, but that’s the truth and everyone’s got to start somewhere! I enjoy painting with spray paint but it has never been a big part of me, and when I have hit the streets it’s been with posters and paint with a brush, although I have been notorious for drunken stupid tagging. I haven’t hit the streets in a while, I still love the thrill of it, and the way the work is presented to the world, but at the moment in London, its either buffed straight away or its over-saturated with rubbish work, so I’m enjoying using my camera and sketchbook to create. I only really like my stuff from the last year or two, so it feels good to be starting out fresh!
Tell me, one day you just wake up and said : Ok I’m gonna start a fanzine and I’m gonna call it The Dilly?
It kind of started because of my frustration. I was frustrated with the gallery system, certain artists, certain money grabbing managers etc, etc. I was annoyed at the way most shows that I saw/read about were featuring the same artists, who I was getting bored, very bored with, very quickly, doing the same stale style/jpeg reproduction: All they were doing were hanging work in some trendy shop doing a show of customized skateboards/trainers/japanese toys, with no focus or anything to make it different. Part of my frustration grew from knowing about equally or more talented artists that weren’t given the same opportunities or wall space as these hyped up artists. I thought, if there’s all this money/wall space/opportunities why not let the talented good guys get theirs? If no-one else is doing it, why don’t I do it? So The Dilly was born.
What exactly means Dilly?
The Dilly name comes from some forgotten blaxplotation film where some Harlem street hustlers greeted each other with “What’s the dilly my brother?”, as in ‘What’s up?”. It kinda stuck in my head.
Some pages from The Dilly 1
Was it your first experiment in the magazine world, or you had previous experience in the field?
I have had a little experience in the magazine world, but just in a kind of journalist way,…. I interviewed people like Kaws, Barry McGee, Espo, (Todd James) Reas, Will Bankhead etc back in like 2002/3. I have also written a few pieces and intros here and there, like the intro to the Bfree interview on this site! My main experience (if any) is from making zines. Which Is putting out your own magazine. I mostly have done a few of my own work (Bloodclot 1-3, Infinite Chances, East vs West…) but The Dilly is the first time working with people, doing something a bit good and something that I will be proud of later on. My own zines were done whilst bored at work, so with hindsight they’re not great, but The Dilly has a bit more going for it. At least I think so…
The Dilly is much more than a simple fanzine, is a way of promoting good art. You show your art and the art of other artists. In the first issue you invited artists like Gomes, New studios, Bfree etc… How do you select them?
First up thank you very much for a very nice compliment! It’s very nice to hear that. As you noticed and said, it’s my way of promoting good art, and there’s one trouble with that: there’s so many good artists out there! So it’s very exciting but also quite hard to narrow down. I wanted the pages to be platforms for the artists to do whatever they wanted. I gave them one rule, to be proud of it. I don’t care what they submit because I trust them. I only pick artists I love, and I love them for a reason, so I just give them free control. I don’t want someone to submit something rushed to meet a deadline. I’d rather postpone it until it’s ready. For the first issue I wanted to work with people that I knew personally, and I thought these guys would make a nice spread.
Would you say that The Dilly is an urban project? In which direction you want to lead this fanzine and what are your influences?
Urban? Street art urban? What is urban? The Dilly isn’t urban. It isn’t the countryside. It’s about artists, and they come from everywhere. It’s not supposed to be an urban project. If it is, then that’s because of subliminal forces, but it’s never been about creating anything specifically urban. Not with the zines anyway. I want the zine to be a regular thing. I want it to be more regular, I want more pages, more copies in more places, I want to work with more cool people putting on good shows… so I want quite a bit! My influences is everything: music, art, cinema, drinking, partying, traveling… whatever. And with art it’s so personal, and my list changes quite often. My influences and favorites are quite broad, and I want The Dilly to reflect them. I want to do hundreds of zines so you can look back and see Europe’s grimiest writers next to some west coast hippy. I love sixties designers like Glaser and Edelmann to Punk flyers, eighties Hull (the city) Graffiti to the new wave in Europe… the list is endless but there are a few constants that continue to inspire me, and the biggest one is Europe. We have so much going on here, such diversity in such a small area is amazing. We have so many different styles in each country, and from country to country. Music, fashion, art, partying, to me Europe is the best! Grime in London, the Paris scene (TTC, Ed Banger…), Vol, Ers, Wssk…its all good, and it continues to make me want to do stuff.
The Dilly show at Iguapop Gallery (Barcelona). Works by Mysterious Al, Nano4814 and Bfree
Tell me a little bit about the process of making a fanzine. It can be somewhat like making an exhibition, right? You are curating your own show, and you build it with your own hands. This is the true nature of the Do It Yourself (DIY) culture, right?
I’m glad you’re asking this, so that others who read this (if anyone is reading my stupid words) might go out and make their own zines! First up: anyone can do it. My mum could do it. If you’ve got an idea, some drawings, and access to a photocopier or printer, then make a zine! Give them your friends. DIY nature is the punk ethic: if something’s shit, do it yourself. You don’t need a big bank balance to make an impact, you don’t need to have a fancy website to show your work, you don’t need to be known in books or magazines for people to read about you. Look at the Sex Pistols and Ramones, they couldn’t play their instruments, but they had what it takes: talent. You don’t have to be the most well connected guy, you could be living in shitsville USA, but if you have stamps and a photocopier you can send your work anywhere in the world. What sets it apart from having a fotolog/flickr/myspace?… Cos it’s a zine. It’s like a little present, something personal you can hold, keep always and go back to. It never crashes due to excessive bandwidth. It’s got uniqueness. It’s always a pleasure to be given something for you to have and hold, like a present. That’s why magazines are still being bought after the Internet. People like physical things, and if it’s handmade and a piece of art in itself, even better. Especially when they are free and limited edition. Zines are awesome. You can say whatever you want, draw whatever you want, because it’s yours. You’re the editor, the curator, you decided what goes in. In a zine like The Dilly I am curating a show, gathering artists I think will work well, but this is better than a show in some ways as it’s a show seen forever now while there are copies, and can be seen at the same time by someone on the toilet in Liverpool or on the beach in Spain, miles away from wifi/galleries. All you need to do, if you don’t know: Make photocopies. Have fun. Screen-print them. Make them look cheap. Make them look expensive. Draw them. Paint them. Put nothing in them. Send me a copy (email me!) Go and make zines!!!
The Dilly show at Iguapop Gallery (Barcelona). General view and work by Erosie
And you take The Dilly one step further by curating and organizing actual shows like the one you did this month in Iguapop Gallery. What is the relation between the fanzine and the show?
As you said I just wanna put out some great art by great people, and shows are just one of the main ways to see art. Its like with a band, you got the cd that you can enjoy at home or wherever (like the zine) but on a different wavelength you have the live experience, the gig, or in my case the exhibition. My original plan was to do a show for each zine, bringing the pages to life in some way. The first zine show was done at London’s Dreambagsjaguarshoes. I was quite keen on getting the artists at the space rather than have some show delivered by the postman. So I got them over, with the help of mr visa card, and we ruined this trendy bar, but in a good way. The Mentary brothers put a giant phallic latex monster over the main stairs, which gave one of the owners nightmares, so I knew it was good. I wanted to take a fairly stale cliché: trendy bar exhibition and do it differently. The second show happened a few weeks back in Barcelona. Urban Funke asked me to come out and organize a gallery show. The invitation was too good to miss. So I wanted to do a decent gallery art show, and I did it, with help from all the artists: Erosie, Boris Hoppek, Mysterious Al, Bfree, Nano, me (Pmh) and Edbyus. I was happy with the way most of it turned out (didn’t finish my piece). I have a few things planned for the immediate future, little ideas I’m brewing. The next shows will be back to back ‘Dilly presents’ shows, which are shows, kinda like the Barcelona exhibition, where they’re not tied to specific zines, its just a chance to show work of artists I really like. Then I got the show for when the second issue finally drops. Both are stupidly overdue, but I definitely want to keep expanding The Dilly 10000%
How did you find Barcelona? Do you think it’s still has a strong urban/street scene? And what about the Spanish artists, do you feel there’s the will to create new stuff?
Barcelona seems like my second home. Truly. I have been going there every year for the last few years. I have a lot of good friends there, I know the city well, I have great memories of the place and every-time I go I make more! Everyone I’ve met there is awesome. Spanish artists, except for that Jordi guy who does Sandwich and Friends, are fantastic. And I’m not just talking Barcelona now, but the whole of Spain, there are some really exciting people there, doing some really exciting things, and its a strong scene that I really really like. You have the obvious culprits like El tono, Nuria and Nano (the hero), to people that I’m just getting familiar like Sixe. I love the VOL crew as well-VOL crew to me are the shit. Awesome style. ONG, Tofu-Pax, Inocuo… I saw a show with Blami and Lolo in Barcelona when I was out there that was amazing, which I thought was great, then Iñigo from Iguapop gave me a catalogue of Blami’s work which I liked. Blami and Lolo are cool. Big up Gamebombing too. I think Barcelona suffered by me and my peers: Grafitti/Street art tourists, and when the world woke up to how great Barcelona was for that type of thing, the authorities understandably didn’t like it and clamped down which was kinda bad on the locals. So I feel part of the problem and apologize. But things like this have positives: it will make the hardcore bomb harder, it will clean the streets of the toys, and generally will make everyone raise their game a bit higher. I think Spain has one of the best scenes, and its still going from strength to strength, thankfully!
And I know that you are working on the second issue as we speak. Is it gonna be free again? And are you gonna be making more copies? Obviously you’re not doing it for the money but if the demand gets bigger and you have to make more copies would you be thinking of selling it? If the underground turns commercial what happens?
This is an awesome question and one that has definitely has had me thinking a lot. The second issue is definitely free: no doubts, and in my mind I would always like it to be free, always. I’m glad you can see it aint about the money. The artists don’t charge me to put their work in, so why should I make money off it? But the problem is costs. I am no millionaire. The point was always work with great people and get their art out there, and if there aren’t enough copies then that’s kind of damaging the point, so I would definitely like more copies, but at the moment I can’t afford it. I would also love to have some pages in color, perhaps change the format, but I can’t afford it! So at some point in the future I will need more money to come in from outside. I look at Vice magazine and they cram their pages with ads, that’s how they make money, but I don’t like the idea of adverts in The Dilly. I could charge, but keep it real cheap like 2-4 euros, but again I like the freeness, that’s what zine culture is about, free & easy. There’s sponsorship, but I wouldn’t like it sponsored by a brand as then it becomes their magazine, y’know? So I’m fucked basically! hahahaha. What I have decided is that when I get to the stage where I need money I will have a poll on the site, where people will hopefully vote. So that way whatever happens is decided by other people, not me. But I want as many people to see great art as possible!!! I aint doing it for the money. If money is ever taken, its always going to be very very artist directed, as in, I aint going to buy me a new pair of Nikes of the back of a friend. I aint the best business minded person on a selfish level. Don’t get me wrong, I want The Dilly to succeed and be a success but I believe you don’t have to be a money grabbing shit-head to do it… I hope!
And you are also working on the website, what exactly are we gonna find there?
It’s been far too long getting it sorted out (like the second zine). I wanted to get loads of things up on there, like videos, but people didn’t get round to editing them…etc, etc so I recently just said fuck it, let’s just get something up there, then we can add as we go. So at the moment it’s pretty simple: pages on the shows, zines etc. Its not overly complicated as I hate flash heavy confusing websites. I wanted to keep it simple. We will have videos up soon of both shows, and competitions, and then a few more surprises planned for the future. But rather than wait for them to be done I wanted something up now! I hope you like it. I designed it but I wanna shout out my boy Mysterious Al as well for putting it up and building it. He was they guy going “what did you do this for? Why don’t you name the layers in Photoshop? Dickhead!!!” Thanks Al!
Any plans for the future that you can tell us about?
Yeah, got lots on, especially with The Dilly (more zines /shows). I’m moving into music promoting by having a night at Dreambagsjaguarshoes in London called L.M.F (myspace.com/lmfhq). It will be every last Friday of the month, with free entry and late license. I’m not using many proper DJ’s, but my mates: fashion designers, punks, graff legends, musicians, photographers to DJ. In the vague future I might be doing a show in Berlin and I want to try and have my first solo show. I’ve got something called “Holy Mountain” on the boil, which should be good. I’m in talks with a psychedelic british hip hop group who want me to do a video for them. More pictures for and perhaps a zine of www.frowsyhq.com. Bits and bobs really. I want to find that perfect balance of organizing and doing my own thing..
Something you want to do that it hasn’t been proposed to you yet?
As I said I’d really like to do a solo show of mine, but I want it to be good and full of stuff, so I want to take time to do it well. I’m a bit of a DIY guy, so if I wanna do something that hasn’t been proposed to me yet, I go and do it myself. I guess bringing out my own Vans color scheme would be pretty amazing.
Can you turn us into some artists or something interesting in general?
There’s so much goodness out there, but there’s a few that I’m really psyched and am in love with, but I’m gonna keep under my hat as I don’t want someone to pinch them to do something cool before I have a chance to! Artists, of course from the UK, Hulls DRA crew, seeing Eko and Pinky paint at the Aerosolic competition the other week was great, and they were painting with amazing dude no.1 Chum101. 88 posse still holding it down, Bfree new work and Fancy Pants Stick It website. There’s an illustrator OG from London town called Jiro who is hot. And I’ve seen sneaks of Mysterious Al and JR (photographer) new stuff, and they got shows dropping that I know will be hot. General stuff? If you haven’t checked out www.tinyvices.com then do: hotness. www.arcademode.com is fulfilling my obsession with current French music/eurokrunk. Remnants of the Beta band, a band called The Aliens, are pretty great. YouTube searches: check out Chris Cunningham’s video for the brilliant bandThe Horrors, and Club Parisparis Ipod battle as well as dope old Hip Hop videos. New label coming out called Ahead of the Game, which is run by one of the Scratch Perverts, with great artwork will be one to keep Hip Hop floors heaving UK style.
I’d like to add some thanks – to you Ana, to everyone in Subaquatica (esp. Nano), to Sam, my dad, Mysterious, Simon, everyone in Spain and London. To all the artists involved, to all the artists that get me excited, to all the people that have a copy of the zine and like it, to all the people that want a copy but haven’t got one, to all the people who came out and partied and all the people that wanted to come out and party. Thanks.
For those who live in Barcelona and are well acquainted with it’s artistic contemporary scene the sixth of July was an important day. A hot Thursday marked by two important exhibitions, or as one might say, one great collaboration.
Almost in the same block of the street, Iguapop Galleryand Mercado del Borne did something that should have been done a long time ago, work together. Two american artists, two separate spaces, one single audience. On one side Gary Baseman (www.garybaseman.com)with “Venison”, at the Mercado, on the other side, at Iguapops’, Tim Biskup (www.timbiskup.com) and “American Cyclops”. Two artists that are used to work together wouldn’t do it any other way, here in the condal city.
In “American Cyclops” one feels totally in american ground. The californian style can be felt in every corner of Iguapop. Tim Biskup is the first to confirm this sensation: “I am really inspired by California as a place and culturally”. He lives in Los Angeles and as much as he likes to travel he wouldn’t trade his home, in the village of Las Cañadas where he lives with his wife and child, for nothing in the world : “I really feel traditionaly based in California, and I really feel that my way of thinking about art is tipically californian”.
So, what is this kind of art that little by little is reaching our lands? An art that searches for inspiration in the history of a country, it’s own. A country that is still too young to tell a long story. An art that has as brothers the Punk-Rock movement and the Skate scene, that lives under the laws of the Do It Yourself movement. An art that never stops to criticize, that likes to put the finger where it hurts the most, and best of all, an art that uses it’s own poison, it’s traditions. In this Biskup rules, by using Folk art, the most traditional of the american way of live, he plays dangerously by using naif motivs like animals, plants and all the well known lettering that always takes us to the western world.
It’s a finger strongly pointed to the country’s ideological believes, but the irony of the situation is in the way Biskup does it visually. The worlds of animation, comics and the endless trips to Disneyland can be easily seen in every single detail of his work. His technique will leed him, eventually, to another level, the conceptualization of his work: “ Much of my work is an intelectual comment on american life, but it’s also an emotional connection for me because there’s a lot of themes about what I see inAmerica that I see in myself. The sense of trying to maintain a belief, trying to make life follow what you truly believe, and that’s what been great about America and also been wrong with America, where it’s easy to choose the easiest way, the way of corruption, lies and hate”.
Because of all this The cyclops is born. For Biskup it represents an actor that he can use for whatever he needs, he calls him “the helper”: “ I think what man does in a lot of situations is, he uses God as an excuse to do things that are really horrible, so the image of the eye of God in a picture where these peolpe are killing each other is about these people trying to make it alright, and so the “helper” to me, because it’s one eyed, he kind of feels like a symbol of this abomination that is created when you lie to yourself, when you’re trying to prove that what you’re doing is ok but you don’t really believe it, you create a monster. You turn yourself into a monster.”
When trying to define his work terms like barroque modernism, modern pop, pop surrealism or cartoon modernism show up but when asked about it Biskup easily answers: “The work defines itself”. And so it is, the message has been sent and it has reached its goal, the exhibition was a success and the book, especially done for this occasion, was bought by many.
Talking about future plans Biskup advances something about a carrousel inside a museum, but that will take a while, for the moment he seems happy with this experience and hopes to return to Spain for, who knows, new collaborations.
During this month of July we had the chance to meet, during his short stay in Madrid, Samuel François aka Same, one third of the art colective Inkunstruction (www.inkunstruction.com). It´s been a while since we follow the work of these french artists and we consider ourselves true fans of their instalations. We couldn’t scape the chance of doing this little interview to try to take a peek at the person behind this color nebulosas full of icons, slogans and trees with trainers!
First things first… one question we always ask everybody: When, where and how did you start to create work for the streets?
I started to do Graffiti in 1991 in Dieulouard, my village in the east of France… I don’t live downtown but on the countryside. I don’t know if I can say that I made things especially for the street. If you look at my work, a big part of my interventions are in the rural areas… I began to work on the streets there during my studies because I lived in a city but we can do Graffiti everywhere… it is not a question solely of being in a city.
It’s hard to imagine a Graffiti writer on the countryside and also back then you painted during the whole 90’s in a more classical Graffiti style. How did you keep in touch with the scene? Traveling to cities?
In fact at college I met two boys “Kader” and “Ali”. They had LAGear shoes and lines in their hair, on the wind-breaker of Kader there was a Graffiti. I believe it was my first contact with it. They painted already and they went to Paris. After some time we played basketball and after that they proposed me to go with them… we had “ParisTonkar” or the first “Xplicit GraffX” to keep in touch, and we went regularly to Paris or Germany. I believe that I didn’t have my own style then and I simply passed from style to style. It was cool. My first piece was “Stop the Violence” like KRS One´s song. Can you imagine that on the wall of the stadium of my village? It’s so funny when I think of it.
Is traveling important for you?
Always. Since the beginning. When I painted, we went to Germany (Cologne, Trier, Saarbruck…) or we went to jams in France (Brest, Dijon, Lyon, Strasbourg…) It was the best way of seeing other things. Even going away just 30 km from home was cool… Today I travel for the exhibitions and I haven’t got much time left to discover the cities than I visit. It’s always too fast: you arrive, you do your work, you drink the evening of the opening and you take the train back the following day. It is frustrating. It’s not like holidays.
You have been to and art school and you work for a gallery. How did you to go from working on the streets to working inside? Was it something premeditated or happened naturally?
It’s the Graffiti which gave me the desire to go to an art school (to evolve/move, to see other things…) I have a diploma as an interior designer and one as an architect’s assistant and after I did five years on a fine arts school but I didn’t benefit enough from it. After going there I wanted to talk about something else besides working on the street just for the sake of it. For me it’s not quite right to place a sticker or a logo just for saying “I am here!”. For me each type of place can be claimed for with a different intervention. I like to adapt my work to the place. I don’t know if this comes that naturally in a gallery where people are prepared to see something. In the street most of the people pass without looking.
Is your background as a Graffiti writer an influence on your approach to the art world or now is just something you keep on the side?
I like Graffiti, I like to paint, to have a good time with friends. I am not an addict writer. If it’s an influence on my work? That’s for sure because it’s a part of my environment and of my background. I like to refer to it in my work, in an ironic way or to push forward the things that are not as obvious, but I’m not a prisoner of my background. I want to speak about many other subjects. Hip Hop is my friend, but there are things much more important that I wish to approach with my work.
Since 2000 you work with the collective Inkunstruction. How did this project started? Who is involved in it?
Inkunstruction was born from my meeting with St Brece and Pico. We had the same passions and the same subjects for our work. We made “Inkunstruction” to work together in commissioned graphic design works, our own editions, t-shirts, decoration work but also on exhibitions. It’s always a pleasure meeting each other to work on a project. We do not live in the same cities and we haven’t got the same things in mind, so is very interesting to mix our universes.
What did you learn from this experience?
Much… almost everything! To work with other people, to accomplish a common goal and not only to assemble three individual artistic outputs to make a single exhibition. Guillaume helped me with better understanding the data-processing tools and working with four hands on record covers or posters. Also you can be more critical with yourself through the opinions of the rest of the people in the collective.
Is it still going on? What are your next projects with Inkunstruction?
At the moment there isn’t a great project in sight. Just working on graphics, a small series of t-shirts… We will update our site really soon. It’s about time! We want to work on a new exhibition but it is difficult to find time because all three of us are very busy with children, family, work…
Apart from your personal artistic work, you survive doing a lot of graphic design jobs. Is it really different the way you approach a design commission than when you do something for yourself? Do you see everything you do as part of your personal work?
I don’t know really. I haven’t got a trainning as a graphic designer. St Brece is more at ease on that field. I like it anyhow. Interesting projects are rare and often take too much time for nothing but I like the kind of projects where you can express yourself as freely as in your personal work. Nevertheless I make a difference between my personal work and graphics and my work for commissions it’s not the same.
You work doing installations, drawings, sculptures… usually combining all 3 elements in the same space. Do you always do “site specific” projects? Is this your favorite way to work? Has this something to do with the importance of the site when you do Graffiti outside?
When I work on an exhibition I always try to hold account of the place but I believe that this is the norm for everyone, right? I don’t like to present the same thing or in the same way regardless of the place. When I work outside, I adapt to the surface or I look for which I think it’s the best there. For Graffiti I’m not that original: walls, trucks, trains… Anywhere is a good place.
I think that in your work there is some sense of melancholy. What can you say to this?
Yes it is true. I do not know if it is melancholy or loneliness… it’s true. What I hide behind these colored installations is personal. I don’t know if I want to speak about it I spend a lot of time alone or with my girlfriend. The melancholy is present in the work of many artists. It’s something that accompanies us. Perhaps it’s the fact of intervening in empty or abandoned places. My area is full of old factories or bunkers and I like to walk alone around there which it’s different when you are an artist…
It seems like color is important for you… why? In which way do you use it?
Like I said, I live in an industrial area. Buildings are grey and dirty. I like the color, I like decoration, I like the patterns. I don’t like being bored. When I compose a picture it’s like a building set toy for children, you know? And I question the place of the decorative in art. I do this by using color.
Also, there is a strong presence of nature in some of the pieces I saw from you, but more nature related or maybe in contrast to modern city life. Is this true?
I live in the countryside so I work with and on the countryside. The place of nature in the city interests me, its representation, its evocation… I play with that but it’s also a way of speaking about oneself, when I make B-Boys (character made of tree, of animals and of tennis shoes) it is a kind of a self portait.
So you represent yourself like a b-boy tree! a country boy lost in an urban culture? You feel like this when you put a little country house between high buildings in your city models?
I’m not a country boy lost in an urban culture. No, I’m not lost. I believe I am composed of many other things, not only of street culture. When I put a small blue/white/red house in the middle of colored buildings I am more speaking about France, an old country that did not integrate its population and didn’t advance for some time now. When I look at France I’m sad, anxious and I dream about solutions other than the World Cup. We are not here only to make decorations, I think we must speak or testify about this kind of things.
Which are your main influences as an artist?
My influences are varied. Basically everything that is around me, all that I see, listen to… I wouldn’t like to make a list. I think that everyone is influenced by many different things. I like to set myself loose and look around as well as Internet or my city. Artists I like: Influenza, Bruno Peinado, Gomes, M/M, Xavier Veilhan, Laura Owens, Michael Lin, Frederico Herrero, Justin Fines, Ari Marcopoulos, Olafur Eliasson…. Recently I discovered PMFKA. I like many artists, contemporary or not, many designers… You see! I listed some people and right after I did I felt bad because it’s like reducing everything that I like…This is people I like but they are not a main influence.
Any interesting people working in your area that you want to tell us about?
Interesting people… There is a lot! Musicians, artists… There is Giant Metal which is a music band from my area. My brother is a member. More than just playing music, they organize full festivals or club nights with national and international artists: Deadalus, The Club of Losers, Machine Drum, Feadz… There is also the people from Kung Fu which is a group of friends which makes editions, drawings, expos… I like their spirit. There is my girlfriend: she work with food and paint. She makes installations with food on the walls or out of dresses. She paints “divinement” well, oil-painting, hyper-realist. I like it. There is a lot more people. My father is a crazy handyman, my two dogs Lia and Athos… Also Justin Morin is a very good friend and a very sensitive artist.
What are you working on right now?
Currently I just finished two or three graphics jobs but my first occupation is my personal work and research because I had a loan from Berlin. For the first time I have money to develop my work and I am very happy. The fact of being able to work in Berlin is a dream. It’s very dynamic and driving for different projects. I began to work with photographs. I am interested in the space during the time between destruction and rebuilding, constructions made by homeless people, illegals gardens, etc… After that I must carry out a series of interventions in urban spaces and finally I must make an exhibition in France and one in Germany. I am working in two editions. I am very excited. I am also preparing a series of new drawings for a collective exhibition in a gallery in Paris. And I have to finish my personal web-site: www.samuelfrancois.com
Anything you want to add?
Have you already taken English lessons? I’m too bad at it!
