Dave the Chimp
First of all when, where, how and why did you start to work in the streets?
I started riding skateboards in the mid 1980’s, so I’m sure I must have put stickers up around then, crew stickers (we used to make up our own “team” names - my favourite was “Team Effort”! Some friends of ours had a crew called something like “Chocolate Animals”, and they made some nice purple and black screen printed vinyl stickers, around 1990). The first time I painted in the streets was 1998, around the corner from my old studio in Clerkenwell - I guess this is what I would consider the start of my “street art” career proper, though I was talking to my Dad yesterday, and he reminded me of a cut-out piece I installed in a flooded field in 1985, so you could say I’ve been creating “art” in the outside environment since the mid-80’s!!! I started because I had to (doctors’ orders!) I have suffered Repetitive Strain Injury in my drawing hand for 12 years, and the doctor told me to stop drawing so small. There was no point making big paintings in my studio as no one would see them, so I decided to make them in the streets. It is incredibly enjoyable to work in the streets, so I kept on doing it.
And… Have you stopped entirely nowadays?
Nope. I painted a shutter in Madrid with 3ttman in January this year! I don’t think I’ll ever stop putting some kind of work in the streets, in some form or another. I currently have 3, no 4 projects either ready to go, or in progress, for the streets. My interest in different forms of art comes and goes. Sometimes all I want to do is paint in the streets, sometimes I want to stay inside and make fanzines. Right now I’m trying to get a bunch of stuff ready so I can return to the streets of London hard in the spring. The streets seem very empty in London right now, compared to a few years ago.
Chimp & 3ttman
The whole Street art term and scene seems kind of over-hyped now, but at the same time there’s a generation of artists world-wide that I think share a somehow similar attitude and sometimes some aesthetics co-ordinates. Do you feel part of that and what do you think you share with other artists from that same “scene”? How has that affected or helped shape your own particular attitude as an artist?
I really don’t like the “Street art” tag. I think it is limiting. I love to paint and draw and construct things and think and create and try and make an experience for others. There are a billion ways to do this, in the streets in a thousand ways, in galleries in a thousand ways, with film, with sound, with words, pictures, comics, novels, theatre etc etc. If you consider yourself a creative person, an artist of some kind, why would you put a tag on yourself, a label? Why would you build a box to constrict yourself?? But that’s beside the point… “Street Art” is over-hyped, and right now I think this is because so many of the “street artists” are making exhibitions, working with brands, etc, and NOT working the streets. If it’s not in the street, it isn’t street art, it’s just “art”. But maybe that’s beside the point too… For me, I think that this form of “art” (which unfortunately has the tag “street art”) is actually just the latest “form” or “school” of art. It needs a new name that represents the whole, and not just the work on the streets. “new barbarians”? I don’t know, but I feel that certain people who have been called “street artists” are actually making proper art. I mean, it’s not about characters, or getting fame through bombing a million posters across the world (I’m talking ART) stuff that moves you, makes you react, gives you a “feeling”. Some people are making ART now, this is the new school!! Traditionally a school of art would be based in one location, and all the “names” from that scene would be operating in the same areas, but now, with the internet and cheap air travel, the scene can be happening in many different places at once, and still have that same closeness and connection. So yes, I think I share many common elements with many artists (we’ve all grown up within the same period of history, and have thus all been exposed to similar culture - movies, art, music, politics, books, etc) so this is to be expected. But for me, I try and just let things come out from inside, I try not to look at what others are doing, rarely visit exhibitions or check the internet. There are many artists I would be honoured to be considered a part of the same scene as, but I never strive to be part of anything.
Also, you come from the Skate culture. Although that is something that doesn’t revolve around art but about some sort of sport-attitude, ultimately and object, many other skaters have become well known artists (Mark Gonzales, Andy Howell, etc…). What’s your point of view about that? Does it have anything to do with the way Skate culture means a particular way to relate to your environment, usually an urban one?
Firstly, Skateboarding is NOT a sport - we only refer to it as a sport to get money from Government or charity bodies to build skateparks!! Sport always, ALWAYS, has rules - there are no rules in Skateboarding! The closest thing we have to a rule is the “law of gravity” and we spend most of our time fighting that law!!! Personally, I see Skateboarding more in line with dance. And dance is considered an art form, so I consider Skateboarding more as a form of “art”, of self-expression. Like you need a brush to paint, but can then paint on ANY surface, the same is true with Skateboarding - all you need is a skateboard and then the modern world is your canvas! So, if you consider skateboarding not as “sport”, but as “art”, then it isn’t at all surprising that skateboarders also paint, write, make music, take photographs, etc. We are already tuned to seeing our environment in a different way through riding skateboards, moving fast, flying through the air, moving our bodies in ways unlike regular people, so it is obvious that we will represent other ways of viewing life through art (essentially, that is what art is - an individuals view of how things are.) I’ve grown up scanning my environment for places to skate, and now I’m also looking for places to paint. You look for scrap wood to build a ramp, or to paint a picture on. When I paint in the street I often try and make the work interact with its surroundings, the architecture, local businesses, or some other element of the world around it. So yes, being a skateboarder does affect the way I make art… Phew!
You do work as an illustrator and I feel that fits very well with your graphic style but how different is your commercial work to your personal purely artistic work? How would you define the way your creative output steps on those two different ways?
I studied Graphic Design, then Illustration, because all I ever wanted was to draw, and, being brought up by a practical father, these seemed a way I could pay my bills but still have job satisfaction. The difference between an “art” piece and an illustration is that an illustration has to fit a brief, and the client has final say over how the piece works. When I paint for myself I can do what I like. The idea to even make the piece comes from me, whereas with an illustration someone has asked me to do it. Also, an illustration usually has to tell a story, and in quite an obvious way. My earlier art work does this, but more and more the story it tells isn’t so obvious (often I don’t realise what the work is about until after I’ve made it) and in the last year or so I’ve been making more abstract pieces, just doing things out of the love of the adventure you go on actually making the piece, rather than trying to put across a message. What I’m into most right now is the actual “experience” of making art, for me, on a personal level. I don’t have much interest in turning out the same work over and over to get “fame” or to make money, because there is no personal growth or experience for me in doing that. I guess the biggest difference is I find illustration easy, but art is a challenge, and I think it’s important to constantly push yourself and challenge yourself. Becoming too comfortable is dangerous. If you stop moving in the constant flow of life you will stagnate and die.
In your work there’s a predominance of characters. The obvious questions is what are your main influences coming from comic books or animation but also it makes me think about how much of your childhood might reflect on your work. Can you tell us about those influences and the child inside of you?
Look around you, what do you see? BILLIONS OF PEOPLE!!! So, is it not obvious to draw characters? The first thing a child draws is faces. Life, as we know it, is the billions of stories of the interaction of the billions of humans - and if you want to tell stories they will, inevitably, contain characters. How many books have been written about the lives of rocks or peanuts or postage stamps, compared to how many have been written about humans or animals, about characters? It’s no surprise to me that “street artists” draw characters, for the reason I just explained, but also because in the late 20th/early 21st centuries we are bombarded with comic books, cartoons, animated films, toys, tv shows, puppet shows, plush toys, etc etc. Every baby has a plush toy, it’s programmed into us at an early age to love these things. And hence, I think I must be hugely influenced by the incredible breadth of these things I’ve been exposed to in the past 33 years. But it is an unconscious influence, and not something I try and express with what I do. So I can’t tell you about these influences in any detail without spending hours on a psycho-analysists couch!! These influences are as much a part of me as my DNA, and therefore ARE me, what makes me “me”. Of course, the easy answer would have been to write a list of stuff I think is “cool” or remember from my childhood, but I’m not one for taking the easy option in life!
It seems like apart from commercial work, street work and doing drawings or paintings to be sold in galleries and so on, many artists with a similar background as you find other ways to portray their work in the form of assorted merchandising such as t-shirts, toys, etc… More accessible to most people because they are cheaper. I know that you did the trooper for the Flying Fortress artist series troopers toys but what’s your experience and “policy” in that field?
Ugh!, do artists really make work to be “sold in galleries”? I find that kind of disgusting. I like to think people make art because they have to, for self-expression, because it has to come out or they will go mad, because they want to experiment, because it is an adventure. I think if something is being made to be sold, that it’s being made for that purpose, then it ceases to become art and is no more than a product, like a pair of scissors or a light bulb or a cheese burger. One of the things I like about working in the street is that it doesn’t involve buying or selling, consuming, profit. It’s somehow “pure”, like giving someone a smile, or telling them “I love you” - an expression, a gift, expecting nothing back. If you only do things to get something out of it, ugh, how could you live your life that way?? Does that kind of selfishness and greed not rot you from inside? Does it not turn your heart to stone and give you cancer? I do commercial work, like make a t-shirt design or whatever, to pay my rent and put food in my belly. To pay for the materials I need to make art. To me a t-shirt design isn’t art, it’s illustration. For me, art involves the blood, sweat and tears of the artist. To me, a t-shirt becomes art if the artist sews the shirt, designs the image, prints it themselves (hell, maybe they should grow the cotton too!) There needs to be a certain amount of physical effort involved for something to be “art” in my eyes. For example, I don’t consider a Damien Hirst spot painting as “art” because he doesn’t paint them. Or, it could be art, but it’s not art by Damien Hirst. If I asked you to draw me a picture, and then put my name to it, is that art? And even if it is, is it not dishonest to sell something that you didn’t actually make as something made by you?? It’s a very confusing question… Here’s a simple answer: making products feeds the artist. Making art feeds their soul. Rarely do the two things happen at the same time!
And about Flying Fortress, you two, despite living in different countries, seem to have connected real well and have done lots of collaborative work, mostly under the Visual Rock Stars collective name. Can you elaborate on how that started and has developed until today?
I met Fortress through my best friend Kabe 243, a German like Flying Fortress (FF). He travelled to London for the second Finders Keepers event and was keen to meet me, being a fan of my work. I had no idea who he was other than a guy who made some quite cool stickers!! We hung out, and I guess we started to email each other, I can’t remember. I was invited out to Munich for the launch of the Art Of Rebellion book, and FF offered me a place to stay. At the launch party we got fucked up on Jagermeister, and I wrote “VISUAL ROCK STAR” on my arm - this was at the start of a period where we were all flying around Europe to party and paint with friends, put on exhibitions, and basically have a good time. It felt like we were rock stars, but ones that made art rather than played music. We spent the rest of the night drawing on people. We made our first collaboration the next day, painting a big wall piece with Santy and some other Italian cats. FF was offered a show at the Montana gallery in Barcelona, and asked me to join him - that was the first “Visual Rock Stars” event. For me, a Visual Rock Star is someone with mad skills and talent!! I originally had the idea to form a European crew, with my favourite people from each country, but it was too complicated (how could I choose FF over Gomes to represent Germany? Would it be ok to have both Microbo and Bo130 to represent Italy? Etc) and, as Fortress and myself had similar influences (skateboarding, punk rock) and styles (tight outlines, great characters) it made sense to work together. Plus it’s more fun to collaborate on shows than just work alone, and I knew I could learn stuff from him (he has the tightest spray can skills of anyone I know!) Plus Fortress it a great person, an interesting character, and lots of fun to hang out with! That’s how our crew (of two) came about. We’ve now had three shows together (London, Paris, Barcelona) as well as exhibiting together at the WORDLESS exhibition in Zurich. We’ve also produced two joint t-shirts for Rockaway Bear, four joint boards for Hessenmob skateboards, and painted a bunch of graffiti together.
Chimp & Flying Fortress
From what I’ve seen in the Visual Rock Stars DVD you produced for your show in London, it basically seems like most of all you had lots of fun and the show turned more into a performance than anything else. How do you feel about expanding your work as an artist from the work on a plain surface into installations or performances… or it was simply a one off thing?
When we were offered the show at the Outside Institute in 2005 it was important for us to really represent. It was a huge gallery, and a big deal at the time. You can’t call your crew “Visual Rock Stars” and not come correct!! FF is happy for us just to create great canvases and wall paintings together, but for me that isn’t enough. I wanted to turn the volume up to 11! Our original plan had been to live in Barcelona for 6 weeks, then exhibit the work we made during our stay, but this wasn’t possible. I suggested we turn the gallery into our studio for a month, so that we could work together, and have a place to work in, and that this could be the exhibition: us working, the show growing. The gallery needed other ways to pull in the crowds, so we came up with the idea of “tattoo days” were we’d draw on people, and the gallery suggested we have a pre-opening party, and a “wet t-shirt” competition. I also came up with the idea that we build a stage, huge speaker boxes, and instruments, then put on some kind of karaoke rock show, as a surprise extra for the opening night. Like I mentioned earlier, it’s the experience of making art that is important to me, rather than the finished product. And I want to create an experience for the audience, somehow give them some of what I experience, or encourage them to think and feel. That was my ultimate plan with this exhibition. to create an experience. I also asked my film maker and artist friend Ichi Bunny if she’d like to make a film about the exhibition, as we’re living in a world of reality tv right now, and it seemed that it would therefore have some relevance to modern society. And damn did she do a great job! For me, the film is the “art” piece. The paintings, the performance, the interaction.They were all elements of the whole. I don’t consider any of the paintings we made as true “art”, and I’m not sure the performance could be called that either - it was more a result of stupidity and booze!! But the film, and the myth it creates - now THAT’S where the art is. Shit - it’s 2007, and people are still talking about an art show we made two years ago! Now that is something!! The more time that passes, the more proud I am of that show. At the time, I felt like a failure. We only sold two small paintings, I think we earn’t £60 each for a whole month of work! Financially, it was a disaster! Plus the show wasn’t anywhere near as big as I’d hoped. BUT - what came out of it was a movie which makes it look like it was one long party, with girls and booze and people getting smashed in the face with guitars!! It looks incredible!! And that, ultimately, was what we were trying to create - an incredible experience that showed what giant art stars we are!!! And two years on, the hard work and financial failure is gone, and all that remains is a movie that rocks!! And I feel that, yes, we succeeded, we are the Visual Rock Stars we claimed to be!!
About the video you recently did for Robots in Disguise, it looks very funny and creative. Is it something you expect to be doing more in the future?
Damn, it was fun! It was a lot of hard work - it took me and Product Two six weeks to build all the sets and props, but it was fun! I really enjoyed being a director, making a story, a whole world, come to life. Again, as with the VRS show, financially it was a disaster: there was no budget, I made it purely for fun, and it cost me around a £1000, plus at least two months of my life, and a bunch of favours, but DAMN, look what I got out of it! A dope video that was viewed by over 40,000 people in two months!! And it was FUN! My manager doesn’t understand how I can spend all my hard-earned cash on stuff like this, but I say to him “I spend the money to experience stuff, to live”. I mean, shit, once the rent is paid, what else am I gonna do? Spend money on clothes and computer games? What’s the point?? I’d rather create and experience than consume. As for more directing, well, I already made a tv commercial, and I’ll be making a video in the next few months for a band called Zan Pan, who have a single out in June. It’s going to involve a wizard. No cardboard sets though!! Well, maybe a few… Now all I have to do is find some money to get it made… anyone want to help a brother out????
Not being an artist, every time I find an artist whose work I enjoy, I’m always intrigued on the creative process. In your case is it fast and wild and not rational at all, is it meticulous and slow, do you dismiss a lot of the stuff you do?… I don’t know, tell me a little bit about it.
Wow, what a question! Um… I’ll try and break it down into easily digested chunks.
Street work: Usually I see an appealing spot and an idea for what to paint will come straight to mind. Other times I might think of an idea of a way or style of working, and then work out ideas to fit that.
Gallery/studio: Working with Fortress, we usually work on the Rock and Roll theme, and any way that could be shown, from painting a band to drawing tattoos on people or dressing in spandex and rocking out! Personal work, it is just whatever pops into my head. Last weekend I went to the studio to work on one project, and ended up writing a poem about a dream I had that morning, then making two paintings based on the poem. Art takes over sometimes!! Lately I’ve gotten into the idea of actually researching a project, a theme, rather than just pouring out the first thing that comes to mind (which is what I would do as an illustrator due to time constraints). I made a dozen paintings and drawings for a show about owls, and that was really fun to actually research owls. At the moment I’m working on my first solo show, and the theme is religion and television, so I’m working on that, but kind of in a loose way. I have twice as many ideas as I have time to produce, and I even have a great idea which I’ve had to dump because it isn’t possible right now. Maybe I can use it again in the future, who knows?
I don’t think I have any set way of working. I just do whatever feels right at the time. With FF we usually plan out what we’re going to paint, so we kind of know how it’s going to look before we start. When working with someone like Ekta we don’t plan anything, it’s all just freedom of expression - it starts off as a complete explosion of shit, which slowly gets polished and crafted into a finished piece. It’s good to try different ways of doing things. To be honest, right now I find the way of working with Ekta I just explained to be more fun, more of an adventure. As for dismissing work, I guess I do. I have sketchbooks full of ideas that never get made, I have a bunch of paintings I started and never finished. I guess life is the filter. I honestly believe that the right stuff happens - ie, what isn’t supposed to happen won’t happen, and what is, will. So, if an idea never leaves the sketchbook then it wasn’t supposed to. Though for the new show I’m working on, I have been grabbing old ideas from old sketchbooks, as well as creating new stuff. But ultimately, you just do whatever feels right at the time. Small detailed pencil drawing? Photocopy collage zine? 10 foot high letters painted with rollers? A week spent refining an idea? A five second biro doodle on a napkin? It’s all good.
One thing I feel that many artists nowadays have in common, and I find it to be a very good quality, is their ability to work easily in a collaborative project with other artists that maybe just met half an hour ago, and in a very short time come up with a mural or collaborative painting. This is something that probably comes from the Graffiti culture but in any case, you participated in a few collective events-shows. Could you tell us a bit about your experience with those?
Yeah, I guess, in theory, this way of working together does come from the Graffiti/writing culture, but if you look at big graf productions, they don’t really work together. I’ve been to a bunch of Graffiti jams, and mostly all they do is do pieces next to each other, and the only real collaboration is that they use the same colours or work with the same theme. For me, that isn’t a collaboration, it isn’t working to create one final outcome or idea. I think the Street art scene has taken the idea of a production and moved it on a stage to true collaboration. It’s like “I’ll paint my character giving birth to your character, then he’ll paint his name as puke coming from your characters mouth, while she paints the background merging with the hair of my character” is a collaboration, whereas “I’ll paint my name in my style and you paint yours in yours, and we’ll both use pink” isn’t really collaborating. I started a doodle zine with my best friend about five years ago, and lots of people will come and draw with us. We riff off each others ideas, steal them, see drawings as something else, create new things. This kind of collaboration is fun. I also started painting posters with Ekta last year, where we would start with no plan, and just work until the piece was finished. The idea was to drop your ego and just paint. Not even paint in the style you were known for. We’d paint out each others work, we’d steal each others half-finished pieces, etc. The only thing that was important was the piece, we as individuals were not important. I think this is true collaboration: collaboration that is most like life. In life, you can’t plan the outcome. Sure, you can make small plans, have ideas and dreams, but ultimately you just have to jump in and swim and deal with what comes along. We’re all in this game called life together. There are no individuals and we are all unique. Deal with it.
Chimp & Ekta
What have you been working on recently?
Today, this interview!! Jeez, I don’t know when to shut up do I?
Ok, so… right now I’m working on:
My first solo show - “If Television is your God, Is Jesus the remote control” - which will be at Biokip gallery in Milan in April.
Ideas for the Zan Pan video.
Some zines that are part of a street art project, including one of abstract drawings.
I’ve recently finished (this year):
Pieces for the owl show, including a zine of the work.
A few bits and pieces for the streets.
Various abstract paintings.
A pitch for a sneaker company.
A couple of pitches for tv commercials.
Comic strips for The Stool Pigeon music newspaper.
Type work for the opening titles of the new Hessenmob skate video.
Painting an ice cream van with Gorb for Lee jeans.
And any interesting project coming up that you can tell us about?
Yup, here’s what I have planned…
April:
Solo show at Biokip.
Pre-production on Zan Pan video.
Get those darn street art projects out of the studio and into the streets!!
Record single with my old band “The Shits” so that it can be remixed by various people for a 12″ release.
Try and get my website finished… 5 years in the making!
May:
Shoot Zan Pan video. Then edit it.
Plan contribution to Backjumps exhibition in Berlin.
June:
Move to Berlin for a month and install my piece for Backjumps
Plan and implement a performance piece, as part of Backjumps, with Nomad.
July:
Ride my skateboard.
Maybe start a street art project with Ayako.
Maybe start work on a short film with Product Two.
Maybe shoot another video for Robots In Disguise.
August:
Same as July!!
September:
Release first Shits single!
Work on stuff for my first solo show in Germany.
Possibly have another big fancy dress party in our studio!!
October:
First solo show in Germany.
Some project you would love to do but didn’t have the chance or nobody has asked you to do yet?
Any project that would actually earn me some money, I’d like to be asked to do that!! I think I might become a teacher. Kids are so madly inspiring! I’d like to work one or two days a week with kids, and spend the rest of the week painting. With the occasional pop video or ad to shoot, like three or four a year. Right now that kind of lifestyle would suit me just fine! I’d also like to get paid to throw big, mad-ass parties with my studio partner Anna!! One day I’d like to shoot a full length movie. I think I’ll do this with my kid brother, I think that would be fun. And I’d like to open a gallery with PMH and my manager Troy. I think we’d publish books too…
Can you turn us into some artists or something interesting that we should know about?
Oh man, there are so many interesting things!! But you’ll have to discover them by yourself! Best way to do this is to turn off the ipod when you leave the house and keep your eyes and ears wide open. PAY ATTENTION!!! Stop hiding from the world. Nothing happens if you hide. TAKE PART!!! As for artists, here’s a list of people I think are doing good stuff, people that make me want to keep on doing stuff:
EKTA - dude rules, and is up for constantly learning. He’s also a cunt, like me!
NOMAD - proper fucking artist. Hates everything even more than me, which in my eyes holds him back. Just play the game Nomad - you can still kick against the pricks AND get ahead! Can’t wait to spend a month in Berlin with that mad fucker! He could be huge if he plays the game, otherwise we’ll have to wait until he’s dead!!!
PRODUCT TWO - kid is mad talented, but too fucking shy. I need to kick his ass more!
SARU - expect great stuff from this kid. In 10 years he’ll be the biggest fucking star.
JOSKA - jesus, Joska RULES! 5 years and she’ll be huge!
GOMES - true artist. Stefan Marx is already so incredible popular that he never emails me any more ;-) I guess when you’re this damn good you don’t have time!!!! Jokes gee
BORIS HOPPEK - So. Damn. Good. His drawings of girls give me a hard on.
TVRBO - the most talented writer in france.
3TTMAN - rules! As does his friend REMED. His street work is so free and beautiful, and he has three heads.
PMH - so supremely talented, so supremely friendly, so supremely positive, such a drunk twat!!! God I love that boy!!
ICHI BUNNY - damn good film maker, I just wish she’d start drawing her Bunny Jumps comic book again - it was hilarious!!
CHRISTIAN ROTH - head honcho at Hessenmob. Makes some of the finest pop videos I’ve seen. Hope we can work on some film together some time. Also a great musician, as is his wife Tess!!! His son Henry will be the raddest skater out of Germany ever!
MICROBO/BO130 - awesome! Skin up!!
MAYA HAYUK - great photographer, great painter, crazy as a badger! Can’t be beat!!
SAMI SEPPALA - One day he’ll pen a great novel, but until then he has the best style on a skateboard and it’s a pleasure to be his friend.
Mr YU - as part of the animation team SSSR, Yu makes incredible work.
ROBOTS IN DISGUISE - this is their year!!
JAMES JESSOP - totally bonkers
NANO4814 - where are you? Come back, you rule!!
NO NOSE - possibly the greatest street artist you’ve never heard of. More Londoners have seen his work than have seen Banksy’s!
MR TRICK - producer/DJ extrordinaire!
I’m sure there are more, but right now I need a cup of tea, so we’ll have to end it there folks!
Chimp’s fotolog:
http://www.fotolog.com/chimp243
1 comment March 31st, 2007 08:02pm Administrador
